#i was thinking who would be the human in the muppet movie

[creeperfun]

in this universe, the hermits are all humans while Joe hills is a juppet (which is legally distinct from a muppet). in an alternate, sweet universe, all the hermits are muppets while Joe is a juman (which is legally distinct from a human)

[hypocriticaltypwriter]

BEHOLD! A Muppet Lost Boys AU inspired and thought of by the lovely @gothamslostboy !!! Gotta say the idea immediately put me into a doodle frenzy that I just had to sketch these out really quick! Also have a little rambling if it was an actual movie.

Now, I know what the poll was probably asking was which actual Muppet character would be who- I.E David as Kermit, Rizzo as Marko, or something, but I wanted to explore a more rare idea I’ve seen the Muppets do.

The original cast is very much still around and in the movie, but not the full attention as Michael and the Lost Boys would be. Kermit could maybe be some kind of narrator at the beginning or break the fourth wall here and there with the other Muppet cast following. I’ve seen something like this done in Emmet Otter’s Jug-band Christmas if you wanna get what I’m trynna say, the main plot and focus is with Michael at the puppet Lost Boys, but we aren’t about to go a whole Muppet movie with the Muppets!

I also thought it was a totally cool idea if maybe even Rizzo and Gonzo were like the Frog Brother’s or something- kinda like their dynamic in Treasure Island for those who have seen that one. Also think that Michael wouldn’t be the only human in this universe, I feel like it’d be a mix that’s again, in a lot of Muppet movies where there are people and Muppets, and I think the main folks who wouldn’t be Muppets would be the whole Emerson family, Laddie, and Max.

And we CAN’T forget the actor/super star cameos, those just have to be sprinkled in here and there… Also thought it’d be kinda funny if the Lost Boy Muppets weren’t played by their original live action counter parts, the real TLB cast could make some cameo and say something goofy or witty.

I’m thinking way too much into this anyway thank you for coming to my Ted Talk about MUPPETS.

[venus-lou]

Venom! Ghost headcanon

I’ve been wanting to do a venom x Ghost x reader thing. This is just a brain dump, I love Venom but I haven’t watch the movie in so long. Things might not be exactly canon in either universe but it’s my headcanon/imagination so who cares. Definitely want this to be a series but no promises.

Here’s a hc with Venom! Simon x TF141

During one of his solo missions where his trying to extradite a scientist that works with a high profile mafia group

It was a black op mission so there wasn’t gonna be any medic or exfil until he was able to finish his mission

Once Ghost infiltrated the lab, he was met with bullets flying and it dawned on him that this very well might be he last deployment

After he was able to clear the room, he had a few lacerations from bullet that missed him by a few centimeters. A bullet lodged into his thigh and another on his arm.

He was cold hands shaking indicating the amount of blood loss was alarming but he didn’t let that stop him. Wondering what the hell are they protecting here

On high alert he reaches the final room, pushing in he saw the ‘scientist’ seemed drained. Literally a human raisin trying to find the cause of this cause everything happens for a raisin…

Venom was slithering around the room before he noticed Ghost. Looking Ghost up and down, he thought he was the luckiest symbiote in the universe. This 6”2 unit of a human walking in just in time.

Attaching himself to Ghost before appearing right next to time.

Before Ghost could even acknowledge what was going on, his body seemed more relaxed. Less tension, the pain radiating from his wounds suddenly disappeared. He noticed a presence next to his head. Quickly turning around he was met with a strange gooey monstrosity with razor shard teeth and milky white eyes?

He somehow kept his composure probably due to shock “What the hell are you”

“I’m an venom and you are mine. Listen carefully Simon, you did not find us, we found us. Think of yourself as my ride. Corporate and you will survive.”

“How do you know my name?” At this point he thought he was losing it. Even if Price got him back how the fuck is he gonna explain what he just saw.

“I know everything about you Simon. I’m in your head, I know your past, what happened with your dad, your family.” Venom snarled at him. “I’ll keep you alive Simon, I could make you invincible. It’s all part of the deal. You do your part and I’m do mine Simon”

Making a deal with the devi-

“Not a devil Simon, a symbiote!” Venom whined

Sighing Ghost sat down in a random chair head in his hands as he contemplated what to do. Die here or carry around this ‘symbiote’

After he returned on base with Venom, he didn’t mention it in his reports cause why? No one would believe him. A fucking alien from outer space taking him as his host for god knows what.

“Simon! I’m a symbiote! Not an alien!” Venom popped his head around Ghost’s shoulder.

Rolling his eyes Ghost just shoved a piece of chocolate into Venom’s mouth. “Shut it muppet”

[the-nosy-neighbor]

Missing

There are people missing throughout the story of Welcome Home.  While these instances are mostly brushed off (what are missing people to an incomplete story?), it is a bit suspect that there are this many instances of mention of people we have no real information about.  So, we have about 3 categories:  missing we might still see, missing then found, and missing concept and context.  As with most things, this is complicated by the story still unfolding in front of us, so we might be able to change these around later.  Also, we aren’t sure where each event is happening in the timeline.

Missing we might still see: 

Julie--We have art of Julie’s siblings, but no siblings.  Her story also tells us that they all lived together in a cave in the woods, until Julie moved to the city.  Indications are that we will be seeing the siblings in the next update.  I believe it is possible that the sibs lived in Home at one point and are now missing.  There are no indications of parents or other extended family.

Eddie—there is a discrepancy here, Eddie is known to have a mother who is also a mail carrier, based on information in illustrated pages, and then it moves right on to say she wasn’t given a name and was only mentioned vaguely through the phone.  I assume Eddie calls her “Mama” like any good southern boy.  We have no idea where she might be, or if he has any other people.  Based on muppet behavior, I don’t think they could have missed out on having his mom come by to talk mail or crafts with him, because I feel like they love a parent/child shared experience.  I think he’s humanoid, but I didn’t see that here (and maybe it’s just mostly because of the style of his nose—see Guy Smiley or The Newsman (shocked to learn he doesn’t have a name))

Pro-tip:  When googling “human muppet” be advised that on r/Midjourney, Famous People if They Were Muppets, nightmare fuel abounds.  I love muppets and I might not sleep tonight.  Also, muppets with human eyes.  No.

I tend to assume that muppets with triangle noses are human and rounded noses are monster, but I don’t think that is a rule by any means. 

However, drawing muppets as human is incredibly endearing. 

Missing then found:

Maybe Howdy—We knew that Howdy had a ton of relatives from previous stories he has told, but we did not hear anything about the people who actually showed up.  I am assuming this would be a gag, random new family members showing up, though I wouldn’t be surprised to see the return of Howdo, Youdo, and his beatnik brother. 

Mama Beagle—She is found during Homewarming, but not sure where this commercial falls in the timeline.  She was definitely a big enough role to warrant her own product.  She lives on a farm, which is where Barnaby grew up.  AKA “The Chicken that Crossed the Road”

People we didn’t/don’t know were/are missing:

Frank’s people:  If Frank has any people, we don’t know about it.  His origins were a mystery. 

Sally’s people:  Anyone associated with Sally.  Given that she is a star, who knows if she has “people.”

Poppy’s people:  Poppy:  Comes from a nest of poppies in a hollow tree in the forest.  We don’t know that she has people definitely, but she has described her parents as a “flamingo on her father’s side and a bit of a hen on her mother’s side.”  Secret half-sibling to Barnaby?  It might warrant the size of the two being similar.  I think she is kind of a cross between Big Bird and Clifford the Big Red Dog.  (I looked at those two, and Big Bird isn’t explained and neither is Clifford, beyond that the author thought it would be fun.  I reject “love” being the answer because it was from the later movie.)  We could see people related to her, but I would imagine they will be normal bird size (which is really relative, considering Mama Beagle’s size.)

D—In the ad from the first iteration of the website, D is missing, and I believe it is a character.  I think it is Sunny, but I know it is not canon and Clown said.  I still think it.

I will feel bad about it, if that is the case, because I keep saying it.

Aside from the above, other art that gives this idea:

Theories exist that this image shows Barnaby’s fur as a patch, blood on Wally’s fingers, and his fingers covering a picture of Barnaby on the cover, which is considered to possibly be a missing persons/murder story.  All kinds of things could land you in the paper, though, and the whole image has red shading.

People that go missing throughout:

Eddie is missing during Homewarming, specifically the album.  (cut off on record after his name)

Poppy is missing during Homewarming, specifically that party  (confirmed in her bio)

Non-canon art that gives this impression:

I feel like there was another in this series. I do have an image of Sunny in this same style, like it is from the same book, but he doesn't get disappeared in his.

This one shows neighbors on the dial that have been taped over, as if they are no longer needed. Sinister.

[yeoldecryptid]

Moby Dick Muppet movie fancasts

Ishmael: Kermit, enough said.

Queenpeg: The human character (tm.) Queenpeg seems like a pretty reasonable dude who would work well acting next to muppets, and having him share a bed with Kermit is reason enough alone for a human character. I don’t have any actor ideas though, so if you have any, go ahead.

Bildad and Peleg: Beaker and Bunsen respectively. They already have the old married couple bickering going on, and Bildad and Beaker both have a slight temper.

Starbuck: Fozzie. I think it would be a lot of fun to see him try to be the voice of reason for Gonzo of all muppets, and based on his behavior in the show, I doubt he’d be very good at it.

The cook: The Swedish Chef. Obviously.

Ahab: Gonzo. He’s crazy enough. Granted, they are two different kinds of crazy, but that will just make things more interesting.

[stevesaxetogrind]

Truly those calling it “bad writing” that Robin and Vickie share similarities doesn’t make sense. She’s not been given enough time to be more than just a love interest, but we do have some info about her:

1. Molly Ringwald inspo, giving us shorthand about being kind of a quirky gal. Hat! Visually, she’s similar to Robin, but that’s not a bad thing because literally similar interests draw people together. She is also skirts vs Robin’s trousers. Femme/Soft Butch! You’re telling me Vickie would wear a tie? Lies.

2. Likes goofy jokes, namely Steve’s joke about Muppet Tammy. Which, Robin doesn’t laugh at Steve’s jokes that much- she dismisses them, but it means Vickie has a bit of a jocular sense of humour.

3. Vickie also likes Steve’s brand of movies, not Robin’s- which is pretty fucking funny. Again, this is not making Vickie similar to Robin, but to things shared with Robin’s Platonic Soulmate. Like, bro movies? Stupid lil jokes? I predict Steve and Vickie having a dad joke competition next season & torturing Robin with how corny they are. People like to talk about the similarities to Robin, but not the similarities to Steve! That’s kind of clever drawing Vickie closer to one of Robin’s favourite people, at least superficially.

4. Talks a lot when one on one, but Vickie wasn’t nervous/flustered in the band scene, so we can infer in more crowded spaces she acts differently/subdued - as like she was in the War Zone. This is unlike Robin who does actually ramble in group scenes, like freaking out over the thing in El’s leg, the rabies bit, or generally a lot of Season 4 where she looses her “cool girl” archetype from Season 3 in favour of chaos. Vickie seems more like she would quietly panic, as opposed to Eddie, Argyle, and Steve who all loudly go WHAT THE FUCK. Which is going to be interesting to see as the whole town is now thrown into an open gate downtown Hawkins probably releasing demogorgons every other hour like it’s Pacific Rim up in this bitch.

5. Meaningful look with Robin in the War Zone- not “oh hi band friend!” A scared/caught/dismayed look that she was there. So there is a connection, and she broke up with her boyfriend after that connection. Anything more is speculation, but the way she wasn’t looking at Robin when she gave the “he doesn’t like Fast Times” reason lets the audience draw points and maybe she felt trapped? Like it was just an excuse to pursue a different interest? Obviously because music is playing indicating a romantic relationship. We don’t have much to compare Robin with on this one, but around Keith she still had more confidence and bullshittery trying to convince him to hire Steve when Keith assumed they were a thing.

6. Vickie also doesn’t seem jealous. Robin is jealous. She was livid at Steve for being the object of Tammy’s affections, but Vickie hasn’t seemed to even look twice at Steve- even as Robin looked over at him while she and Vickie had her last scene.

For such a short amount of time in the season, I think that we have a good foundation for similarities and differences to Robin. Also, once again, it’s not a crime to avoid “opposites attract” tropes. Having similarities is good! Like, the amount of couples I know that are essentially the same archetype of queer person is not even close to zero. Especially when it comes to older queer couples who got together in the 80s/90s, they kind of morph into being one granola bar of a human being. Kind of similar with straight people when they genuinely like one another.

I hope they flesh Vickie out, but like, we’ve gotten a similar amount of screen time for Mr Clarke but no one is mad he is “one dimensional” when he is just, some exposition science guy. He’s a stock and standard teacher, has a girlfriend, and kind of goes along with explaining shit without questioning why a lot. But folks love Mr Clarke. Is it because Mr Clarke isn’t getting in the way of your ship?

I never thought I would see the day there were some true blue f/f ship wars, but bruh, Robin’s love life isn’t an A Plot so give the writers some slack. They’re human, not the devil. None of you were gleeks and it shows so fucking much. None of you lived through “angry lesbians on the internet don’t want me dating you”.

Personally I’m looking forward to Robin and Vickie getting together and maybe hopefully kicking monster butt together- or at least, Robin getting a nice little badass moment defending her gal.

[foreos]

The Muppets Present: The Guy Who Didn’t Like Musicals

based on @the-muppets-present. saw their rule list and felt inspired. might do the other hatchetfield shows later if i feel so inclined :)

i just felt like the story of “average office worker who hates musicals gets trapped in a musical” was just begging to be muppetified.

so, without further ado,

ted- guys i went through so many options for ted. it was immediately hard. eventually i decided on rizzo, because i feel like similarly to ted, he’s kind of an asshole that causes problems for himself and everyone around him. plus, the “kick my head!” scene is even funnier if ted is like. one foot tall.

bill- kermit. i think kermit can and should be a sad dad. bill is like the most earnest man in hatchetfield and the idea of kermit being deeply disappointed that his friend won’t help him reconnect with his estranged daughter because he hates musicals so much is so funny to me.

professor hidgens- gonzo. duh. camilla is alexa. gonzo is the most eccentric bitch in the cast and would 100% kill people to get his musical produced. imagine gonzo shouting “come on you bastard!” at the apocalypse. gonzo would get struck by lightning and climb out of a pile of his friends’ bodies. he just would.

charlotte- miss piggy. stay with me here. from a meta standpoint, i always find it funny when piggy plays the secondary female role in a muppet movie and gets annoyed about it in interviews. from a character standpoint, post-infection charlotte’s high energy would be great to see if it was performed by the one and only piggy. imagine miss piggy singing join us and die. imagine the beginning part. she just beats the shit out of rizzo. gonzo shoots her.

mr. davidson- fozzie. idk i just got a mental image of him putting the newspaper down like jeff blim does at the beginning of the song and then fucking. waggling his ears.

sam- this one was hard because i had to think of you tied up my heart and show me your hands. i eventually picked link hogthrob. sam’s a pig, link’s a pig, etc.

alice- janice. hear me out. it’s not just because she’s “the other girl muppet.” imagine if alice just looked at bill and went “whatever, man” and walked away. truthfully thinking more about watcher world than tgwdlm for this one.

paul- jon matteson. paul stays the same, babeyyy. i think it just adds another fucking layer to his panic because not only is everyone randomly singing around him, they’re fucking muppets. just imagine la dee dah dah day if he was surrounded by muppets. he’s just some guy in a weird situation, and just some guy he shall stay.*

emma- lauren lopez. so i am breaking the number one rule of muppetfication to keep emma the same, but there’s a method to my goddamn madness. the only person paul can relate to in hatchetfield is the one other human being. plus, again, imagine the end of inevitable with emma screaming and crying while surrounded by fucking muppets.

*so i lied. just some guy he shall not stay. when inevitable starts, you first hear paul’s voice. he’s singing, just like he does in the show. emma very quietly goes “paul?” the same way, too. but what’s different is you can’t see paul. the camera pans over.

paul is a muppet.

he’s one of the lookalike ones, like from the first two episodes of the show and the jason segel one from the 2011 muppet movie.

“paul, you’re scaring me” indeed.

[devilsrecreation]

any outlanders christmas headcannons? :3

You know, I HAVE been thinking of Christmas-based scenarios recently (i.e “A Christmas Carol” with Reirei) so why not?

Also idk if you mean in-universe headcanons or a human au so ig I’ll do both!

Everyone has a hand in decorating the tree. Everyone has different taste in Christmas decorations so it’s very diverse

They binge watch all the “good” Christmas movies like “Home Alone” and “How the Grinch Stole Christmas”

They also warm up to “Muppets Christmas Carol” bc I said so

You know damn well who would do the equivalent of this to caroling animals

Your “Secret Santa” idea still prevails and the Idiots still don’t understand the concept. Either that or they reveal everybody’s secrets

You know that joke where someone’s stocking is huge compared to the others? That’s Cheezi “I’ve been really good this year!”

I think mistletoe grows in Africa so the skinks definitely place it here and there. It’s cute for Janja and Jasiri and Reirei and Goigoi….not so much for the crocs. Tamka and Neema ended up under it and actually gagged at the thought of kissing each other

Ig Kiburi changed the tradition so they fight under mistletoe instead cuz it’s the crocodile way

You know how Pumbaa dressed up as “Dandy Claws”? Jasiri got Janja to do the same thing hfhfhf

“Not a word…”

The skinks are definitely on the Naughty List. You know why

However when threatened that they would get coal, Shupavu insisted on making money off of it…or at least using it to build up the fire to keep warm so take THAT, Santa!

Chungu, Cheezi, and Tamka are not allowed to go into the kitchen cuz their fatasses ate all of the Christmas cookies

[jennelikejennay]

Pondering the different versions we've had of Kirk, Spock, and Bones.

There's actually no one version of Trek which is flawless. We can set TOS as the gold standard, or we can pick and choose.

For me, it goes like this:

Pine Kirk: best looks. I'm sorry, young Shatner looks pretty nice but he is not in the same league.

Shatner Kirk: best characterization. Because of the changes in the Kelvin timeline, AOS Kirk is a completely different guy. There are similarities, but TOS Kirk has a gravitas I really like. He's not a kid. He's a starship captain.

Wesley Kirk: I hated him at first, but I'm starting to see it. You can see Kirk's kindness, his way of getting people to open up to him (even La'an!), his ability to get the best out of people.

Still, he looks kinda like a muppet. Idk.

Nimoy Spock: best looks. The other two are great, sure, but the cheekbones? The lanky but strong figure? The VOICE?! You can't beat Nimoy Spock.

Quinto Spock: best characterization. I know, how can you outSpock the original Spock, but bear with me. TOS struggled a bit sometimes to decide who Spock would be. He's serious, deadpan, and then they get bored and spray him with sex pollen or something to get him to do something else. Quinto has the advantage of a serious character arc where we get to see the tension between Spock's feeling and emotion, his human and Vulcan sides. I consider the backstory in the 09 movie absolutely canon for the main timeline.

My only complaint is, destroying Vulcan is too sad. Seriously, JJ. We can traumatize Spock without throwing a massive complex trauma into the entire universe that every future work is going to have to cope with.

Peck Spock: he certainly is hot, and his voice is much more like Nimoy's than Quinto's is. He does have the tension that Quinto has, though in a less intense form. He's missing a bit, though. Why isn't he greener? Where is your eyeshadow, Mr. Spock? Where is your SASS? As Strange New Worlds continues, I really hope he grows in his ability to sass.

Bones: honestly??? Kelly and Urban are the same dude. Karl Urban simply becomes Bones. Hard to have a preference of one over the other when they are both so perfect. TOS Bones does have the advantage of looking older, which seems more in character for a guy that grumpy. But AOS Bones is of course much hotter.

What do you guys think? Am I wrong? Who did these amazing characters best?

[tast3slikedirt]

If you could remake your favorite movie with a full Muppet cast, keeping one human actor from the original, what movie are you remaking and who are you keeping?

Well my favourite movie would probably be the first Spider-Verse movie so that's a bit of a loaded question, but i am going to assume that human in this case just means the original character? So i would say Miles is gonna stay human

I think it'd be so funny seeing all of the spider people as muppets, and seeings miles be the odd one out would be kind of symbolic if we were overthinking it way too much

Beyond just that i think the casts' personalities are so distinct that they'd all fit perfectly as a gang of muppets lmao

Peter B Parker and Peter Porker as muppets would be HILARIOUS i can't be convinced otherwise

[butterscotch-goat]

if your story was made into a muppet remake which muppets would play your ocs and who would be the token human actor

I thought. way too hard about this. TL:DR Aster would be the token human, Beatrice would be played by Fozzie, Charles by Bunsen, Grace by Kermit, Eli by Rowlf, and Martha by Gonzo. way-too-thorough explanations below cut i am so so sorry ace

Hhokay, This is a tricky (but fun!) question for me for a couple of reasons.

1. Imagining potential muppet gore and muppet emotional manipulation and muppet public execution was. An experience.

2. Balancing finding a muppet with a similar personality or overall vibe as each character and and/or one with a similar narrative role or occupation?? Depending on which makes my job easier??

3. Humanity is such an integral thematic topic in Escapism that picking who to be the only human was going to be. Tricky,

In an IDEAL world, both Aster and Grace would be played by Real People, as they're the characters that have their humanity ripped from them the most and in the most intense ways, but that kind of felt like cheating since the main cast is so small.

Aster would make sense to be the Token Person since she's the main character and is on screen the most, she's arguably put through worse conditions than Grace for longer periods of time (other than. Literally dying.) and also I don't know how muppet surgery would work, and finding a muppet to play Aster feels like a DAUNTING task.

But it would make sense for GRACE to be the Token Person bc she's sanctified til the very end of her life and doesn't fully get her humanity back as a character until Martha gets Character Developed AFTER Grace's death. And Grace is a little bit of a worst-case-scenario to Aster and meant to be a fresh look on another magician's experience so having a brand new Real Person against a bunch of Muppets would work with that.

Ultimately I'll have Aster be the Token Person since we spend the most time with her. But if you'll let me cheat a little bit it's both Aster and Grace. Don't ask me about actors because I don't know actors,, finding references of people with similar enough faces to those two for my semi-semi-realism pieces was challenging enough.

Okay now the hard part. This took so long because I had to set aside an afternoon to watch at least ONE muppet movie and I kept either having school stuff or wanted to draw,, I ended up just watching The Muppet Movie and writing down lines or interactions I thought could apply to a character.

I would have Beatrice played by Fozzie Bear because of his sidekick-ish role, how he does his best to refuse to admit when he's in a bad situation and gets himself to persevere through everything with a smile, how he always seemed so ready to protect his friends (Kermit, at least) and how he's borderline desperate to make people laugh. Also the way he always says "Yes sir" to Kermit? I don't post my writing much but Beatrice calls people "Mister" and "Miss" a lot even when it's unnecessary to, kind of like in a Samwise Gamgee way?? Mister Frodo?? You know??

Charles was hard to decide because he has so many facets to him that are all SO wildly different. I went for I guess what'd be the obvious option of Bunsen Honeydew; Bunsen specifically reminded me a lot of Charles at the beginning of Escapism, welcoming and friendly, almost monotone, even while talking about the silliest most deranged science-related things.

Grace was somewhat easier than I anticipated though I don't think Kermit is a super obvious choice, but his mildly sad and pathetic manner mixed with his sense of authority and self-assured air is similar enough to Grace on her better days. Also Kermit was only really convinced to go to Hollywood when he realized he could make people happy, which is very Grace-core.

Eli was difficult because he is the most normal member of the cast. They have the least amount of screws loose by far. I think Rowlf the Dog suits him enough because of his solitary nature but care for people around him.

Martha was also surprisingly easy. Gonzo matches her general "weirdness", her social awkwardness, and her sincere love for the world around her. And also the non-binary vibes. Every day Martha gets more and more non binary...

I hope. I didn't commit any muppet crimes or anything. I grew up on the movies but don't watch them all that much anymore, but honestly I had such a fun time watching The Muppet Movie (Kermit riding a bike will never not be the coolest goddamn thing) so maybe I'll get around to watching more muppet movies. If anyone has any suggestions for muppets for any characters I didn't mention, or better choices for characters that I did, I'd love to hear them !!!!!!!!

THANK YOU FOR ASKING, ACE!!!!!

[thatlenguy]

If awbtl was made into a muppet remake which muppets would play which characters and who would be the token human actor

oh god . I've put too much thought into this. I am decidedly a muppets casual please go easy on me if I've broken any of the Muppet laws. Full thing under the cut

J would probably be the token human- J is a normal person from earth cast into a captalist hell world with a bigass robot in it. That strikes me as very token human in a muppets movie. No clue who would play J. I don't know actors.

One would be Gonzo. My reasons-

-would start a game of life feud with someone due to dumb luck

-blue

-vaguely nonbinary

-unclear species

Midas & Lisa would be Statler & Waldorf- I think it would be fun to imagine them heckling people together. Midas's like the provincial champion of complaining and Lisa desperately needs an outlet for her lawyer anxieties (anxieties that lawyers have). Also they're the two most humanish muppets I can think of. Also they're both pairs of old people.

Archer would be Animal but I don't feel like elaborating on that. Paul would be Fozzie or some other, more secret muppet, that they only tell you about if you watch every film ten times in a row.

Aleks would be Kermit, Evlyn would be Miss Piggy. They'll be fine. They're a perfect couple. Both pairings are also green and pink! Aleks is also Kermit because they both seem sad and pathetic. Wait Kermit I didn't mean that I'm sorry mr. The frog.

Ed and Bel would be bunsen and beaker. They both have the rectangle and circle. Thing. And they're nigh inseperable- or would be if they weren't in capitalist hell world.

Bard suggested Pathos could be some spider from a Muppet Christmas Carol, but I didn't know who that was so my brain went straight to PATHOS IS THE AMERICAN EAGLE. just leaving you with that thought. Good night.

[duckduckhjonk]

Talking more about this idea because people seem to like it :3

- Neither Zoot or Lips know how to drive the bus, it would crash at LEAST twice.

- Most of the sound track would either be parodies or covers of past muppet songs, just with like- 20x more saxophone and trumpet. Imagine these two idiots trying their best to sing Moving Right Along.

- They're both weirdly magical, it's never addressed but it saves their lives quite a few times.

- I've said it before and I'll say it again, There will be a tango somewhere in this movie. My thoughts are maybe it could be trying to remind Teeth of who he is.

- Neither of them sing much, most of their songs are accompanied by them just playing their instruments, but they do get songs.

- Epic villain song. The antagonist band is mostly a mirror of the electric mayhem. They're led by a human though.

- Lots of cameos from famous musicians. Give me a Taylor Swift cameo.

- They work with a lot of other muppets. Any Muppet you can think of are in at least one scene.

Feel free to add on! This is such a silly idea, I might doodle some bits of it while learning to use Krita tomorrow :3

Also feel free to suggest a title because I do not have any ideas at all.

[millipedish]

On wembling, convincing, fawning, and the antichrist? A Convincing John deep dive.

I wrote this over the course of a week, trying to sort through 13 years of obsession. Why is Convincing John my favorite character, anyway? Content warning for talk of organized religion, a subject I try to stay neutral on. While my experiences with church are mostly negative, someone I know values it because of the community it gives him, while still criticizing the same things I do about organized religion. I'm trying to come to this with that point of view.

In 2011 I was out of college and employed on the weekends. There was a new channel on TV called The Hub. Essentially it was created by Hasbro to market its toys right into the brains of little kids with shows based on its properties, but it also had a number of reruns of old shit, particularly, including a big chunk of the Henson catalog. I think this is where my adult interest in Henson began. There were no muppets, of course, that was Disney, but there was a lot of the weirder, experimental stuff that no one talks about. Like Good Boy!. Does anyone remember Good Boy!(2003)? It’s a. It’s definitely a movie.

While other nerds my age were discovering My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, I was watching Fraggle Rock in syndication. It immediately drew me in with its sets. Mossy caves with rainbow lighting were beautiful but also a little unnerving. Unknown creatures would bounce and slither in the background- nothing to do with the action, they were just there. It was contemplative and mysterious.

Then suddenly a girl was alone in a cage, singing about rivers and sunlight and her desire for freedom. That song had me totally enraptured. That’s the moment I became a lifelong Fraggle Rock fan.

I went on youtube and I looked up the song just to hear it again and to confirm that it was as good as I thought it was. Then I was down a rabbit hole watching more videos from the show and absorbing more songs. 

And that’s how I first stumbled upon this rat preacher guy singing about human beings and doozer towers. Comments sections could not be turned off back then, and I scrolled down to see some weird comment about the character’s initials. Keep in mind that that particular upload has been deleted and the comment has been lost to the void, but it was something like this:

Convincing John is JC reversed, the reverse of Jesus Christ! Convincing John is the antichrist! Or at least that’s what those crazy 80s parents groups said about Jim Henson’s character back in the day. Those silly conservatives! But what if Jim had a message with this character? Makes you think, doesn’t it?

For the record, there is nothing to back that up. Not even anything about conservatives getting mad at the show for John’s character. I checked with the people who know. But, put a pin in that idea. 

Mokey(AKA, the girl in the cage) was my favorite at first! I loved her singing voice, and I loved her complexity. Calm, but insecure. Generous, but vain. Pacifistic, but spiteful. Because she was my favorite, I wanted to see all the episodes about her, so naturally I learned the context of that Convincing John song. 

And I tell you, the way Fraggle Rock introduced him was effective. For context, this is the episode where Mokey is trying to convince the fraggles to stop eating doozer towers. Frustrated that she can’t change their habits, Mokey declares that she’ll ask Convincing John for help, and when she mentions him, there’s a musical sting and her friends gasp.

The next two minutes are spent hyping up this character. “He can convince the rocks to change color” “he’s the type of fraggle no one goes to see”. We don’t even see Mokey talk to him, but we see what he’s done to her: he’s convinced her to wear plastic cups on her hands, and he’s convinced Red to walk around blindfolded. This is a fraggle, not a gorg or a poison cackler. He has the ability to make the girls make decisions that are clearly not in their best interest. Is getting him to change the will of their whole community really a good idea? It feels like making a deal with the devil. Even Mokey calling him a ‘nice man’ makes him seem more ominous. 

If he has that kind of power, what kind of person is he? I mean, yeah, I’d already seen the song, but putting myself in the shoes of someone watching this chronologically. Two thirds of the episode in and he finally shows up, and he’s just about the ugliest fraggle you’ve ever met! I mean that affectionately. He has a cheap suit, and teeth! Teeth built right onto the puppet! They resemble that time Kermit had teeth but not quite as bad. He proceeds to sing his very upbeat, very silly song, which does indeed change everyone’s minds. 

John was played by Jim Henson himself, along with Cantus the minstrel, and they were very much based on the facets of his personality- the hippie and the salesman. 

In The Preachification of Convincing John, John himself is more of a force than a character. We, the audience, always see him when he’s performing, even though we know Mokey talks to him in more private moments. That would change in season 2, episode 14, The Secret of Convincing John.

When his name is brought up, it’s only Boober who seems to display the same amount of fear as he inspired in Preachification. Gobo sounds in awe of the man, but he has other things to take care of. Boober is dreading the experience, and asks Wembley along, but Wembley already made other plans with Gobo. We’ll later see that it was Red who summoned him to make her community wear clown noses, and Mokey is along for the ride. I have to say, of all the fraggles, I’m most surprised that Mokey has not learned her lesson about John. 

But then again, this showing seems to have lower stakes. The Clown Concierto is a party song, and John will only be singing one verse. The Fragglettes exposit that one verse makes for a temporary convincing, ‘perfect for pajama parties’. So this is kind of like a temporary, group hypnosis. Mokey seems enamored with the idea of ‘wearing the nose, and believing in it’.

When Wembley sees Boober, of all people, wearing a clown nose, he resolves to have Convincing John convince him to stop wembling, and this is where the danger comes back to the situation. Making people wear clown noses for a pajama party is one thing, but changing your personality? So it seems like the fraggles fear isn’t so much for John himself but the way he uses his powers. 

When the Fragglettes speak to Wembley, they once again bring up the number of verses. One verse will make him a little confident, two verses will make him totally confident in public but still have doubts in private, and three verses will make him arrogant. But the choice doesn’t matter to Wembley because, in true Wembley fashion, he does not choose the treatment for himself. But this time it’s not his fault: Convincing John leaps in and starts singing over him.

John gets through two verses before Wembley stops him and the Fragglettes, and rather rudely, too. Now his voice is brassier. He says he doesn’t need John’s services anymore. When he returns to his friends, he informs them he changed his name, and starts ordering them around. He’s so definite that his friends dislike him and they think he’s going to hurt himself. It seems John’s convincing worked VERY well on him. Put in a pin in that, also.

His friends force Wembley to see John again to reverse the damage, but this is where the secret comes in. Because they catch John in the middle of a song- a song about his own wembling! It seems John’s choice paralysis is even worse than Wembley’s. And honestly? This is the moment John became my favorite rock character. These twenty minutes of television changed the course of my life forever.

Gobo and the others are surprised by this, naturally. John says that wembling is the secret to his success, although the way he delivers it it sounds like bullshitting. But I tend to think that there’s something to that! 

Let’s look at Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock, Season 1, episode 10, Wembley the Spokesfraggle. The doozers make towers using a material that tastes horrible to the fraggles, and they simply aren’t touching them. An advertising specialist named Jack Hammer says they need a spokesfraggle for their cause, and when he sees Wembling wembling, he chooses him. Wembley goes to become, dare I say it, very convincing as he sings the praises of the weird, pink sticks. It could very much be that Jack sees Wembley as someone easy to mold, but Wembley really does become a good spokesfraggle. 

This arc very much feels like a shoutout to Convincing John. Wembley gets a tie and three backup singers to go with his new role. His friends even deny that someone as charismatic as he has become could still be a wembler. Remind you of anyone? I also love that this is about people to convince people to eat the towers instead of to stop eating them.

So here’s where I get into my theory. I feel like wemblers are just sort of, kind of different fraggles. They are easier to convince, at least initially. In The Secret of Convincing John, Wembley became a jerk after only two verses of John’s song- something that was not meant to happen. In the Wembley the Spokesfraggle universe, Wembley was easily molded into what Jack Hammer wanted him to be. But as soon as Cotterpin told him what the fraggles were really doing with the sticks, he had his doubts.

You might ask for an example of it happening for John, and I would argue that every time we’ve seen John so far he’s been susceptible. You’ll notice, we haven’t seen him so ‘no’ to a convincing job, no matter how disastrous the results might be. More on that, later.

So Wemblers are easily swayed, but they are also particularly compelling speakers. Now, I do have to mention that in Wembley the Spokesfraggle, people seem to particularly trust him because of his reputation. He’s known for his honesty and the careful way he goes about decisions. When he starts telling fraggles that the pink sticks are good, actually, its *themselves* that they doubt. 

But John doesn’t have an honest reputation- quite the opposite, actually! Fraggles are afraid of him because of what they know he can do to them. John’s convincing feels like some kind of spell, and the way they talk about the number of verses affecting the effectiveness makes it feel moreso. Even the convinced fraggles express confusion over why they did the things John convinced them to do. 

So yeah, I totally believe wembling is the secret to John’s success, even if he doesn’t. Now lets examine how his powers work. 

First of all, his convincing can cross the species boundary. Wembley encountered several doozers wearing clown noses on his way to see John. Tests would have to be run to see if he could convince gorgs and silly creatures. 

When Wembley returned to his friends, they were no longer wearing the noses. The Clown Concerto was temporary, just as the Fragglettes promised. So, if John sings one verse, it just wears off on its own. I think we can conclude that the song he sang to Mokey about cups on her hands only had one verse, then, as she no longer wears the cups a few days later. 

So, three verses must be very potent, right? In Preachification, the fraggles got three verses. They pressure Mokey to let them out of the solemn oath. She eventually does, but you’ll notice that they don’t touch the towers until John sings another verse. It makes me wonder if they needed his spellbinding song in order to eat them again. What would have happened if he hadn’t shown up? Would they be able to eat the towers? Or would they find themselves compelled not to do it, despite their own desires? No wonder the fraggles are afraid of John.

So only one verse of the song to break the three-verse spell, and to break a two-verse spell requires a challenge. Maybe. Perhaps Wembley's nature as a wembler means John needed to try harder or use a softer touch to break the spell.

And sure, we don’t know. Wembley might have come to his senses on his own, eventually, and maybe the fraggles really did only need for Mokey to release them from their oath. But giving John all this power- its just a fun headcanon! So that’s the one I choose.

The third thing we know about John’s powers is that they do not seem to work on himself. Despite lamenting about his own wembling in song form, John has not convinced himself into being a definite fraggle. Not as far as we know, anyway. Even more concrete evidence was the fact that he bit into a tower right before singing a reprise of his anti-tower song. 

Now I understand why some random youtube commenter called him the antichrist. Convincing John has this much power, so he must be evil. But is he really? In a show like fraggle rock, where empathy and cooperation is the key, is there really any room for evil characters?

I honestly feel like John is just a guy who loves doing what he does, and he believes that he is really helping people. We also don’t see him say ‘no’ to any convincing jobs, even if they could spell disaster for his home. Is it ever his sole idea to convince someone? Well, he wasn’t told to convince Mokey to wear cups on her hands. Or was he? We don’t see the scene play out. The girls were also there, and likely so were the Fragglettes as it’s established they live together. So the idea could have come from any of them.

Makes one wonder what would happen if Marlon or Pa Gorg asked for John’s help. He kind of comes across more as a people pleaser than this plotting manipulator. And, maybe there’s something to that?

Let's talk about Wembey for a minute. He displays traits of fawners. In Back to the Rock, season 1, Episode 4, Four Wembleys and a Birthday, Wembley begrudgingly agrees to all of his friends’ ideas for how to spend his birthday, even though he doesn’t want to do any of one of those activities. He even justifies it by saying “But, as long as my friends are happy, maybe that’s enough.” 

Wembling’s fawning is especially evident in Fraggle Rock season 1, episode 2, Wembley and the Gorgs. It’s foreshadowed when he’s especially agreeable to Gobo’s suggestions. “If it’s OK with you, it’s OK with me” is a repeated mantra. With the gorgs, his interactions are kind of the literal definition of fawning as a defense mechanism in action. Wembley is in a dangerous situation with people who want to hurt him, and there’s no way he can escape. So when Pa Gorg says he wants to be saluted, Wembley agrees with no question. 

In Four Wembleys and a Birthday, Wembley actually pulled himself so thin that he split and became invisible. Indeed, when you fawn, you can lose your identity. Your whole existence is about other people, not yourself. After the events of the Wembley and the Gorgs, he reflects on his experiences. “I mean, it didn’t seem like I was a slave. I guess some slavery feels like freedom.”

And that's another thing about fawning- it's still your idea. Wembley saluted Pa, his whole heart was in it. There was no part of his brain that was consciously thinking “I’m doing this so that he won’t hurt me.” It was not a conscious decision, even though it was still his idea. It’s kind of hard to explain but when you fawn, you really are totally in it. For the moment, you totally believe whatever it is you’re agreeing to. 

There’s a misconception that fawners are manipulators because of the way we seem to change our minds so quickly, or even because we say ‘what people want to hear’. As if we’re politicians, not just regular people navigating our own lives. I promise you, we aren’t out to lie to and manipulate you. We are constantly operating under a fear protocol and when the fear becomes too much, our brains default to the behaviors that kept us safe when we were children. It harms us more than it harms you, and it takes a very long time to unlearn the fawn response.

Fawners also tend to be fawners because they learned that it kept them safe. They often grew up in situations where they could not always get away from danger, and appeasing their abusers was what they needed to do to survive. I think it’s possible that Wembley was in an unsafe situation before he met his friends. But with their support, he’s learning to say ‘no’ more and more, and especially when its important. Most of his arcs are about finding his voice. In Four Wembleys and a Birthday, he does manage to recombobulate and he tells his friends what he really wants. 

I propose that John is a fawner, too, but it's better at hiding his low self confidence. He is a performer, after all. And he makes a good foil to Wembley. Even his purple fur is a nice foil to Wembley's yellowish coat. John is mirror of what might have happened to Wembley if he hadn’t met supportive friends. If he had met Jack Hammer before and continued down the path of a spokesfraggle. Wembley is a fraggle with a lot of inner strength, but without power. John is a fraggle with a lot of power, but without strength. 

To some things, Wembley agrees full heartedly. Like in The Secret of Convincing John, when Boober asked him to join him for the Clown Concierto. The only reason he didn’t go is because Gobo reminded him that he had previously committed to helping Gobo get his uncle’s postcard from outer space. 

But he doesn’t always jump on everyone’s suggestions. There are times when it’s clear that Wembley does not want to say yes, but he struggles with saying no. So he kind of stalls, saying things like “Oh wow Gobo, you think so? Huh, maybe we could try that?” Even when he does tell people in a direct way that he doesn’t want to do something, it takes him a long time to get there. An example of this is Fraggle Rock: Back to the Rock, Season 1, Episode 2, Red and the Big Jump.

(A brief aside but- hello- Red and the Big Jump is *brilliant*. Not all of the responsibility should be on Wembley to always speak up, it should be on his friends to listen, too. John Tartaglia, who wrote this one, understood that perfectly. As you can probably tell, Wembley is the member of the Five I identify with the most, and I’m so glad he was the catalyst for the episode about consent. People aren’t always able to just say no. The Trash Heap makes it clear that the absence of the ‘no’ is not a ‘yes’. That’s a message that even adults seem to have a hard time understanding, which is why it’s so, so important we teach our kids these things from a young age. I’m so glad Red and the Big Jump exists.)

I believe that John has his own way of stalling to avoid saying no. We didn’t see it, but we did see the results of it. Mokey with cups on her hands, and Red wearing a blindfold. He’ll convince people to do silly things instead of giving them a direct ‘no’. He initially did this with Mokey, but only got through one verse before she convinced him.

So was that youtube person way back then correct? Is he the fraggle antichrist? I mean well. No. Not at all. But. Being generous, I think there is something interesting to be said about John and religion. Because I left something out when I talked about his inspiration- he’s a reference to Jim’s personality, but he’s modeled after televangelists. He’s got the bad hair, the flashy suit, and the backup singers, and his debut episode is even titled the Preachification of Convincing John. 

Even the language his song in that episode echoes some phrases you might hear from a preacher on TV. “There’s a mighty day a-coming”, “extra-good-as-gold”, “for eternity”. It’s very interesting to me that in this version, the reasons John gives all have to do with the fraggles’ well-being and not the well-being of the doozers, as this Mokey prime concern. As a preacher, his strategy seems to be ‘scare-em-straight’. It’s not about what the doozers need; it’s about how horrible things will happen to the fraggles themselves if they eat the towers. This is also a hallmark of bad actors in these fields who rely on the fear of damnation rather the love of one’s fellow human beings to compel their flocks to act.

Convincing John features in one last episode, The Secret Society of the Poohbahs. In the story, Mokey seeks to gain entrance into an “Exalted, high, holy, order”. She becomes very stressed out as she believes she’s breaking the rules of the club, but eventually realizes that it’s all very silly. By design! 

John is one of the leading members of the club, and at one point he states that he doesn’t know what ‘innocent’ means. “Doesn’t it have something to do with lambs?” That feels like a vague Bible reference. Honestly, the Poohbahs could easily be fitted into some commentary about religion. A group of people with their strange rituals who are quite scary but when you look close, they’re just your friends and neighbors. 

So, it may not have been intentional, two out of three of John’s appearances had elements that were poking fun at organized religion in a tongue in cheek way. Like everything on Fraggle Rock, it paints a nuanced picture. It’s wrong to scare people to the ‘right’ path, and don’t get so hung up on scripture. Church is meant to be about community, and if it loses that in rituals and rules, then its not right. It’s a light in a tunnel. In a world where kids might have had a preacher tell them they were going to hell if they kissed certain people, this must be a breath of fresh air. 

So why do I love John so much? He reminds me of me. He’s a fawner. He wants to be liked, but the way he goes about is probably not the best, and it leads him to being feared. And John is full of other contradictions. The ugliest fraggle in the rock, but the most charismatic as well. Outwardly confident but inwardly unsure. Powerful but easily swayed. As much a snake oil salesman as he is a preacher. Not good or evil, but certainly flawed. A complex, well rounded character, in other words, who I would love to know more about. 

Scratch that. It’s the teeth. It’s definitely the teeth.

[goodluckclove]

An Overview of the Famous Men I Have Found Attractive

So I was never romantically or sexually attracted to men. I have, however, found quite a few guys attractive. Just visually. Or maybe in theory. Or maybe it's a gender envy thing, who knows?

But I quickly learned that every time I've named one of the famous men I think are hot, the response is usually doubt/confusion/disbelief. It became a joke at my last job that my taste in guys was crazy. So I decided I would list most of them and make a sort of assessment and weak defense of my stance.

Bruce Campbell

it is shocking to find out anyone would consider this a hot take. i showed my wife (an individual who i believe has been attracted to and has had relationships with real-life men before) Evil Dead 2 and automatically assumed we'd have common ground on finding lead actor bruce campbell attractive. they went on to say that he looked like a weird middle schooler. this is haunting to me. bruce campbell is what i considered to be an objectively handsome human male. my world shattered that day.

You know what? No. I just added the picture above, this is an objectively sexy man. It is not weird that I'm into this.

Donald Sutherland (Specifically in the 1971 crime thriller Klute)

this is humiliating to bring up. not because i'm ashamed that sutherland looks like such a kind cutie in his lead role, but because i have never brought up this pick around someone else and have them even know about the movie Klute to begin with. i do not mean to have my tastes get as niche as they can get. it's a fucking jane fonda and donald sutherland movie, i didn't go in thinking it was some crazy underground hidden gem. it's Klute. donald sutherland plays john klute, and he's outrageously attractive to me. maybe you have to see the movie to get it, because i think a big part of it is his performance as just an Awkward Guy.

i stand by this. he's a cutie.

Young Billy Joel

I get it. I get you probably think this is weird. You might be asking questions like who the fuck is this? Or can clove think of an attractive man that isn't a figure from the 70s and 80s?

Listen. I'm regular. Also I can absolutely think of attractive men of the 21st century, it's just a different type of attraction. it's less "oh man this guy is so fucking hot" and more "aw good boy so handsome".

If you were aware of Billy Joel at the height of his popularity please comment and validate that this isn't weird to think he's hot. He married Christie Brinkley in the 80s. Clearly other people agree with me on this.

Steve Buscemi (Specifically in the Tales From the Crypt episode "Forever Ambergris")

Have we collectively agreed to stop pretending like Steve Buscemi isn't hot? Are we there yet?

Also putting all of these men in a line I am starting to see that I think the most attractive man to me is someone with the vibe and appearance of a human Muppet. I'm not going to look to deep into that. I can't unwrap that now.

Jim Morrison

this is the only guy on this list i do admit was embarrassing for me to consider attractive. i don't think he's ugly. i am no longer a middle schooler, though, so i'm a little more willing to see that morrison was kind of a doofus. so now i see pictures of him and i mostly think - man. what a doofus.

like it's sad the way he lost himself to addiction. his mixture of self-serious brooding artistry and just strange absurd goofiness makes me think he might've been a fun hang if not for the substance abuse. and i still enjoy his music. his album of poetry An American Prayer is so edgy but so earnest and i do like it still.

uh but yeah big doofus. look at those pictures. he reminds me of my cat bob. no thoughts in there.

[tnoy-keraxis]

out of the hatchetfield players, if they were in a muppet movie, who would be the single human?

assuming you mean Bogs Hollow players because theyre all I talk about <3

ermmmmmm I think my first instinct is David because him directing a team of muppets is funny but I think the biggest brain option is Gregor. Just this evil fucking critter torturing these muppets.